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Hope? Perhaps a glimmer.
Atthys Gage
Posted: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 1:32 PM
Joined: 6/7/2011
Posts: 467


To be honest, this isn't the announcement I'd hoped to be making but it's better than nothing.  And, since Book Country is involved, I thought I'd share.

About two weeks ago I got an email from Danielle telling me that an agent had seen my excerpt (The Flight of the Wren) on Book Country and was interested in seeing more.  Not surprisingly, I said yes. (Yes! Yes!  Does she want me to fly it to her office?  Can I read it to her?  Does she like jewelry?)  She kindly forwarded my email to the agent, contact was made, I sent her the book, and for two weeks was uncharacteristically hopeful.  I even pictured myself posting a notice similar to this one.  Take heart, friends!  The system works!  Kerry isn't the only one.  It can happen to you, too.

Well, that ebullience lasted until yesterday.  The agent in question send me a kindly email explaining that, while she liked the story and the characters, she felt I took entirely too long getting to the main action.  (Too much exposition spoils the plot.)  If I could trim it down, she'd love to see it again. 

I was both pleased and demoralized.  Her suggestion would move what I thought of as an Act Two reversal to the front of the book (within the first fifty pages).  This would mean gutting about a hundred pages.  The demoralizing part isn't the work involved, but a more fundamental doubt about whether this can be done without making a hopeless muddle of the thing -- or relying on a lot of devices like flashbacks and after-the-fact info dumps (back-filling) which I fear would come off as artificial and obvious.  I feel like one of the strengths of the novel as it stands is my insistence on staying tight in the MC's viewpoint, of seeing things as they happen at the same time she does.  It may have just seemed like pipe to her but to me vital plot points were being planted, characters given flesh, relationships allowed the chance to grow and bloom.  

Anyway, I've gotten off the point.  I'm obviously going to try, but I'm not particularly hopeful anymore, because I don't have any idea how to, essentially, turn the novel inside out (like a sock.)  My wife, pragmatist that she is, suggests treating the whole thing as an academic exercise, since there's nothing to lose by trying.  She's right, of course.

But the message I wanted to share with you all, yeah, that message actually still applies.  It CAN work.   People in the publishing world DO check us out on this site.   It may not work out, or it may be only the beginning, but it's something.  So have hope.  Keep trying.  Keep on writing.

Cheers
Atthys

Carl E Reed
Posted: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 3:32 PM
Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 608


Not an “academic exercise” at all, Atthys, but a crucial test of your ability to take your agent’s criticism and suggestions to heart and fashion a new, vital work from the ruins of the old.

Of course it hurts. Of course this process is deeply painful, bewildering, frustrating. Ego-diminishing, exasperating, exhausting. You were prepared to make minor changes and tweaks to your work and now someone’s come along and smashed the whole damn thing to bits, pointed at a gleaming fragment or two lying on the ground and said, “There! That’s your story. Start with your best, most riveting bit of narrative and proceed from that point.”

You must feel like Stephen King, forced to cut hundreds of pages of narrative from The Stand simply because his publisher’s presses couldn’t print a larger, mass-market book. Or Mark Twain when he was originally penning the too-hot-to-handle satirical essays that became the posthumously-published Letters From The Earth. (“What publisher is gonna touch these? Who am I writing for? Why am I doing this?”) Or Harlan Ellison, when Hollywood Big Shot #438 made stupid, enraging remark #22,654 to our long-suffering hero. Or any Renaissance free-spirit who chafed against the strictures and control of the medieval Catholic Church when creating their masterpieces. (“Nude figures on the Sistine chapel, Michael? Really? Really?! Well . . . never mind; we’ll paint clothes over them later.”)  Or . . . but you get the point.

You must fashion a new, vital work from the ruins of the old.

Of course, if you’re absolutely certain your agent is dead wrong you could just toss the work aside, proceed with your next novel and let posterity re-discover this lost writing and applaud your genius in the distant future. (Hey, it worked for Twain! And many another good writer. Could work for you. Or rather, your corpse.)

Or you could fashion a new, vital work from the ruins of the old. Not a better novel, necessarily (you’re too close to the work now to feel that it could ever be that) but a different one, a playful variation on a theme.

This is no mere “academic exercise.” On the contrary, it will take every bit of artistic talent, grit, dogged determination and iron self-discipline you’ve got to tear this thing apart and put it back together again.

I think you’ll do it. If nothing else to prove to yourself—and your agent—that your original version was better: more interesting, faster-paced, engaging—superior in every way to this new, vital work erected upon the ruins of the old.

Of course, your artistic reputation is at stake. Well, the beginning of one, eh? So you won’t be too cavalier about doing this re-write; you can’t afford to. Too much is on the line.

And s
ince you’re already going to pay in blood, sweat and tears you may as well have some fun while you’re doing it. I’ll bet you won’t be able to resist sharpening a bit of description over here . . . Working in a jot more sensory detail over there . . . Tweaking, tuning, testing. Refining, purifying, polishing.

After all this isn’t hackwork you’re engaged in. And you do have a roadmap to work with: a completed novel and your agent’s suggestions. That’s a lot more than you started with.

I’ll bet you won’t turn out a leaden, tone-deaf piece of crap. A lifeless, dispirited assemblage of meandering narrative and rambling dialogue, nonsensical details and herky-jerky story telling. Or, to speak directly to your worries: You won't inject needless flashbacks, interminable info-dumps and other artificialities into your novel. Professional pride forbids it.

No, I’ll bet you fashion—aw, you saw this coming!—a new, vital work from the ruins of the old.         


nancy lopez
Posted: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 4:26 PM
Joined: 8/12/2011
Posts: 23


Hi Atthys,
I still think it's great news!  Gone With The Wind only took almost 200 tries!  So you're well below that mark. Lol. I know you put a lot of work into your story, but tis is worth the effort I should think. I get it though,  she wants the action sooner.  Hmm, Harry Potter discovered who he was in those first 50 pages when Hagrid took him to Hogwarts. I just checked for you. So did the Narnia kids and the Hunger Games were lined up awaiting to be chosen to go to battle.
I guess, I'm doomed, too 
But, I have faith in your talent and vision.  So you'll make it happen.
You can do this Atthys!  It'll just be another version.  So you'll always have the original.  Therefore, you're not compromising anything.  The original baby still yours and down the road you can do a companion or something and rekindle the magic carpet.
Get to work.
I want to read those new (first) 50 pages by. . . let me think,  February 29th.  Leap year day.  Cut, cut ,cut. And, Post.  
I'm already waiting for that new version. You said it  before to me, they want the plot upfront and quick.  No dallying down the path. No time to delve into words or delicious stuffing.  They want the meat.
Whip out that carpet. Time for a fast ride.
I'm actually happy for you.  Can't you tell?  It is wonderful news.
Nancy 
Atthys Gage
Posted: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 9:17 PM
Joined: 6/7/2011
Posts: 467


Thank you both for the kind words of encouragement. 

@ Carl: "If nothing else to prove to yourself -- and your agent -- that your original was better... superior in every way to this new, vital work..."  Ha!  I'd be lying if that very thought hadn't passed through my mind.  The fact is, I don't really know whether she is right or whether it's just a piece of boiler-plate criticism -- Number seven:  get to the main conflict in the first fifty pages.   Sounds reasonable, but I never thought of that event as the main conflict.   I, of course, thought my pacing was perfect.  But what are you going to do?  There's really no way of determining who's right until I have done my damnedest to get it done her way.  It is painful, not so much because of my undeniable need for ego gratification, but just because I really am not sure how to do it. 

But yes.  I will try.  I really will.  I may have to smash the whole thing up with a spanner before I can find a new way to reassemble the bits, but I need to try.

And Nancy, February 29th!?  You are too funny.  Plucking the pluck from the still warm corpse of my beloved, refashioning a new body around it, wiring up the Rayovacs and jolting it to life... sure, three weeks oughta do it.  

Rest assured, I'll keep you informed, assuming I do not choose plan B.  Plan B is still a little vague but it has something to do with holing up in Las Vegas hotel room with four or five hundred bottles of bourbon and never writing again.  

Cheerio.




Carl E Reed
Posted: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 10:41 PM
Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 608


And that's exactly why I phrased it to you the way I did, Atthys. If I were in your shoes (except I'm not, and never will be, since I don't write novels) I suspect I'd feel the same way. In order to summon enough energy and enthusiasm to proceed I'd have to treat the re-writing of the novel as a kind of stylistic exercise: that is, follow the advice given me and do the best I could to create—not a better, but a different—kind of book.

I won’t patronize you. (Patronization = a subtle, honeyed form of belittlement. )

So when you tell me you received this news/advice with mixed feelings of dismay, consternation and (subtext) terror, I empathize.

But I also
think to myself: his agent’s probably right. (This will be your first published book, after all.) But Atthys is too close to his work to see it. He’s got to psyche himself up for a monumental undertaking, one that will call upon every ounce of grit, talent and determination he’s got in order for him to see it through. So what do I tell him? What can I say that will help?

Because here’s the thing: I don’t know that your agent is right and you are wrong regarding the book; I merely assume it due to your inexperience. Your instincts and aesthetic judgment may very well be spot-on regarding this novel, but then where does that leave you?

Uh-huh. With an unpublished novel sitting in a desk drawer.

So what’s to do? It’s clear that your wife’s well-meaning remark—“treat it like an academic exercise”—didn’t work for you. It didn’t work for you because, I suspect, you’re one of the rare breed that thinks of his writing as a kind of literature, not mere hackwork. So treating the rewrite as some kind of “academic exercise” leaves you cold, unmotivated, slightly depressed.

That’s not gonna get you anywhere.

I say I have I have no direct experience of this kind of thing but that is a lie.

In fact, I went through a similar experience—not in degree, but of kind—to what you’re facing now.

As quickly as I can re-tell it: some years ago I went and read the novelette “The Final Flight of Major Havoc” at a juried critique of industry professionals in a public forum (a bar in Chicago). The writing was universally reviled, mocked and condemned.

I went home stunned and bleeding, feeling like a wild-eyed calf that barely escaped the butcher’s skull-crushing sledgehammer—barely alive, struggling with two crippled forelegs, a broken back and a concussed, ringing head.

I sat down in front of the computer, fired up my story. Looked at their collective critiques, back to my story. Raging and cursing I ripped the damn thing apart and re-wrote it with a completely different tone, pacing and plot. I killed off almost every thematic element that appealed to me and ended with a closing line that expressed my utter horror and despair. (Oh, I also eliminated about 70% of the words.)

Then I fired the story off to the sole editor on that particular panel (that very night) and sat back in my chair with a queasy, heartsick “that’ll show ’em!” feeling in my gut.

My aim was to demonstrate to the editor how ridiculous the story was now; how absurd and wrong-headed and tone-deaf were the criticisms that had turned my miniature masterpiece into a bit of ephemeral puffery.

You guessed it: the re-written story came back accepted for publication. With a feeling of utter unreality and growing incredulity I read the editor’s kind, encouraging words and insightful analysis of why this new story was superior to the old.

Flash forward now to the present (some ten years later): I still have both stories. I just re-read the original version the other night. Which one is better? Neither. They are different, as opposite and contrasting as night and day.

But only one version got me published, paid, mentored.

So what’s the moral here? Sell out to “the Man”; betray your own instincts; willfully destroy your own best work in some misguided attempt to appeal to a fickle, increasingly doltish and semi-mythical “mass market” reading audience?

I don’t think so.

I think you have to take a deep breath and plunge into the rewriting with a kind of half-crazed, despairing energy. In so doing you will find news ways of making old material work.

In other words: I think you have to fashion a new, vital work from the ruins of the old.

Good luck!


GD Deckard
Posted: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 10:42 PM

Atthys, I just did what your agent asked you to do. In the hope that knowing how I did it might help you, here goes:

Cut out the beginning, all the gestation right up to where the story begins to breath. (Pick a spot.)
Keep that material! Use it like notes and weave the necessary bits back into the story where the story must have them. Archive the leftover material for another day.

It's hard but it can be satisfying to see the difference, before and after. Your story may well be stronger for losing some weight.


Atthys Gage
Posted: Thursday, February 9, 2012 2:25 AM
Joined: 6/7/2011
Posts: 467


@Carl.  That's quite a story regarding Major Havoc.  I, like you, have to assume that the agent's instincts are probably right (at least in terms of getting published if not, necessarily, in abstract aesthetic terms.)  I, personally, love a novel that takes its time, that allows the reader to get to know the characters gradually, that allows the plot to come to a slow simmer before boiling over.  But maybe, as a first time novelist, it would be unrealistic for me to think I really have the chops yet to pull off something like that.  Nor, as a first timer, have I established a track record -- a reason for readers to tag along with me long enough to see whether I really know what I'm doing or not.  

So, for argument's sake, the agent is right.  I really would prefer to be published now rather than posthumously, and your advice is spot on.  If I'm going to do it at all, I have to throw everything I've got into it, and I do have to think of it as a new work, rather than just a tweak.  Otherwise, I am going to be resentful and grudging and the thing will turn out awful.  

(Incidentally, the wife's comment was more to suggest that at the very least, I would learn from the experience and hopefully become a better writer.  She was, as usual, correct.  I already have, and I haven't even started the rewrite.)  

So thanks.  I needed to hear what you had to say.  

@GD - I may try something very much like what you suggest.  It's hard, because to me, the whole thing is a living, breathing organism, but god knows I am, as Carl says, too close to it.  I think Tom Waits once said that it's easy to fall in love with all the varying shades of brown in your work, but to anyone else it just looks like mud.  So I'm going to take that to heart and consider plain, bold colors where pastels have become blurred.  A lot of stuff I really, really liked is going to end up in the archive file, but what the heck.  Maybe it was only there for me in the first place.  

Thanks all and good night.  



GD Deckard
Posted: Thursday, February 9, 2012 12:08 PM

You Wrote: "I think Tom Waits once said that it's easy to fall in love with all the varying shades of brown in your work, but to anyone else it just looks like mud."

LMAO!  I've been a mud lover. Still am, no doubt.


Alexander Hollins
Posted: Thursday, February 9, 2012 2:20 PM
Joined: 3/13/2011
Posts: 412


Or Harlan Ellison, when Hollywood Big Shot #438 made stupid, enraging remark #22,654 to our long-suffering hero.


HAH!  Is funny because its true!

But yeah, try it slice it down, and see if it makes the book better.



Angela Martello
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2012 7:49 PM
Joined: 8/21/2011
Posts: 394


Hi, Atthys,

You can do this. It'll take time and lots of work, but you can edit/revise/rewrite your book and still have it be your book. The original version of the book I have posted on Book Country was a whopping 192,000 words. The version I'm editing now (and hope to post soon) is down to 127,000 words. So, yes, lots of material was deleted in very large chunks, but I also got the word count down by removing a lot of unnecessary words and basically tightening up the writing. It was a lot of work. It took a lot of time. But I don't think I lost my story or my "creative voice." If anything, I think the story is better; the voice clearer.

When I was working as a science writer, I quickly learned that everything I wrote wasn't carved in stone and that I had to be ready (and willing) to rework my stories at a moment's notice. I can't tell you how many times the art director would yell over the cubicle walls, "Angela! Your story is 27 lines too long!" Or worse, "Angela! You need another 27 lines!" Needless to say, I got really good at on-demand editing.

We get attached to our work. It's only natural. After all, our works are the children of our creative spirits. But our attachment can cloud our judgement. That's why it's good to get feedback/advice from other readers, writers, and editors - and agents.

Good luck with your editing and rewriting!


Atthys Gage
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2012 1:53 AM
Joined: 6/7/2011
Posts: 467


Angela. Thanks for the encouraging words.  I am going to tackle this thing, I just have to get through the denial, anger, bargaining, and depression stages first.   I know the story needs to move faster, and shedding some of the expository scenes (great though they are) is the only way to do it.  Sometimes I wish it was as cut and dried as "Hey you need 27 more lines!" but, alas, we are forced to muddle forward, by guess and by god, groping in the dark, always wondering:  "Is it done yet?"

But someday. 

Cheers. 





Rommel Luna H
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2012 12:10 PM
Joined: 1/20/2012
Posts: 12


This is the sad truth when art mixes with industry.
It's all about consumption.
I've thought about that: what if a publishing house likes 50% of my novel, but they want a different beginning, or worse, a different ending?
What would I do?

 I know what I would do.

 I would comply.

 I would destroy my baby for the sake of publishing it.
Or at least I would trick them into believing that.
For it wouldn't be my baby what they're forcing me to cripple with what they think are stylistic amputations and prosthetics. I’m not that kind of creator.

 It would be its clone!

 The original would be safe on my hard drive, encrypted under a couple of 516-bit passwords and two or three magic spells.

 I would put its clone under so many transformations that in the end it would look as if it was written by them, not me. And then I would brand my name on its forehead and send it out to prostitute itself among the other attractive, fast-paced, cool, easy-to-read, youth oriented abominations, in the hopes that it would bring me money and, specially, fame so, one day, my real creation, and the other new creations that may be in hiding under those bits and spells, may see the light of day without having to expose them, defenseless, before the prying pimping eyes of the industry.

 Just make sure that by then you don’t turn into one of “them”.

 Cheers  - and congrats on this opportunity!


Atthys Gage
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2012 1:43 PM
Joined: 6/7/2011
Posts: 467


Rommel.  I can't deny it.  I have had some of these same thoughts.   And so, while I attempt to comply, I will certainly keep the original safe.   I've had several novels get the "this is well-written and I enjoyed it a lot but I'm afraid it just isn't big enough (read:  commercial enough) for the marketplace" response from agents, and the thought always beckons that if I could get my foot in the door, maybe build a track record with a more accessible (read:  commercial) book, something high-concept, then I'd eventually be able to push the envelope a little.

But I know that if I produce something that I really don't like -- in fact, don't love -- for all it's flaws, I probably won't be able to finish it, much less publish it.  So it has to still be mine.  Maybe not the favored golden-girl apple-of-my-eye who makes my heart swell, but still my kid, still capable of making me proud to claim it as my own.  It isn't even a question of selling out to please the market.  I know there are things I will miss from the original but there are bound to be things I like better in the new as well.   There had better be, or it's not going to be good enough to please anybody anyway.

Cheers to you as well, and thanks for posting. 


Mimi Speike
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:54 PM
Joined: 11/17/2011
Posts: 1016



Atthys,

I know exactly what you're going through. And you know I know. And what do we do about it?

I'm going to read The Flight of the Wren. I have two reviews to finish first, but I will start it in the next few days.

My own approach will be to nudge my thing, little by little, hopefully, fairly painlessly, starting small, in the direction which has been recommended. I plan to hold onto the original, and every version along the way, so I can backtrack, if I have a change of heart.

I can afford to take my time, for my book is nowhere near done. I'm not on the verge of any kind of submission, successful or otherwise, which it seems you may be. On this, congratulations!

I don't believe I would be able to gut my story to get published. In the end, I will take my chances on self-e-publishing, hoping to slowly garner a following. 

Yesterday, when I first read your discussion, and Carl's comments, (you both put a big smile on my face, which I really needed) I was tempted to say, do what needs to be done. Today I add, but only what you are truly comfortable with. Make compromises, but only those that you're sure you won't regret.

Today, thanks to JoeTeeVee's last comment on Sly, Book One, I have real hope, and some brand new and very promising suggestions about how I can address my own problems and still retain the spirit of my story, a difficult piece, I've always known it. 

I would say, give yourself time to think. Start something new, and ruminate on Wren.You may not feel able to do this, fearing that the agent will lose interest if you wait too long to resubmit, and this may be a real concern. But, how would I know? I've never been that far.

I'll say no more until I've read your story. I may not get a review posted immediately, but I'll pop back here and tell you what I think of it briefly, and I'll tell you what I would do in terms of a revision vis-à-vis the preservation of a vision, after I mull it over a bit more.  

My advice may not work for you. I'm writing for myself and I've never pretended to do otherwise. I've never tried to please, I'm the ultimate misfit. Why start now? That's not quite true. I tried to reinvent myself in my twenties. It didn't work. I'm a loner. I go my own way. I've learned to live with it.

Carl's comments are more pragmatic than mine. I'm speaking emotionally, not sensibly. Listen to him, not to me. And, good luck!



Atthys Gage
Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 6:50 PM
Joined: 6/7/2011
Posts: 467


Mimi.  Thanks.  I'm not rushing into the revisions of Wren.  Indeed. I am proceeding at my normal glacial pace.  But yes, I have already started.  I think I have a new structure for the beginning and at first I was pleased and even excited.  

Then the rewrite began.  It is heavy lifting.  Writing nearly always is, but as I plow into the rewrite, I discover just how many scenes are going to end up in the freezer.  (For later consumption, of course – consomme of Wren, warmed over.)  The effect on my psyche is, I'm afraid, a little enervating.   I hope to reduce, compress and elide eight chapters into four – so many scenes, so many moments created out of nothing.  Copy, paste, delete.  

But I am determined to try.  I am not particularly worried about the agent losing interest.  If she likes it, she will like it just as well three or four months from now.  The whole process from book-of-the-mind to Book-of-the- Month, is incredibly tedious anyway.  

Thanks again. 
Atthys


  
 

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