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Reader feedback vs. fellow writer feedback
Ian Nathaniel Cohen
Posted: Saturday, November 16, 2013 6:43 PM

I should start by saying I don't consider this an either-or, since feedback from either one has value.  The feedback from the point of view of your average customer at Barnes & Noble gives an idea of the book's ability to hold a casual reader's interest.  The feedback from a fellow writer, especially with lots of experience, can offer tips on how to make the book as presentable and as appealing as possible to an agent/publisher. 

 

Also, both also have their drawbacks. Readers all have different tastes and interests (some might not care about world-building, others want lots of detail), and not all readers have an eye for quality.  A fellow writer with his/her own particular technique or style might not like something of a different style.

 

That being said, when soliciting feedback, do any of you value one over the other?  Does the feedback from an average Joe reader hold more weight with you, or from a fellow writer?



leilani
Posted: Sunday, November 17, 2013 10:54 AM
Joined: 9/26/2013
Posts: 8


I think both are extremely important, though if anything I'd give a little more weight to a fellow writer's feedback. Even if your particular genre isn't an individual's preferred area, a writer will generally offer you technical advice to make your story better. A single reader may not offer anything more profound than, "This is awful!" and you don't know if you have grammatical errors, typos, a character that doesn't resound with them, or the reader says that about every single book they review.
Jay Greenstein
Posted: Sunday, November 17, 2013 11:46 PM

As for reader feedback, Sol Stein said it well with, “Readers don’t notice point-of-view errors. They simply sense that the writing is bad.”

 

Feedback from writers is iffy, because in reality, it's "You need to stop writing like you and write more like me." If they have more skill it's helpful. If less...

 

 That's why it's best to check by reading something the one giving the advice wrote, to see what following their advice yields. You also need to pay more attention to the fact that the comment was made, because it indicates a place where your prose didn't mesmerize. Fix that problem and you're set.


Ian Nathaniel Cohen
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 9:49 AM
Good advice to keep in mind from both of you.  Thanks!

Richard KeslerWest
Posted: Monday, November 18, 2013 11:51 AM
Joined: 10/11/2013
Posts: 7


I'm not sure the writer vs. reader division makes much sense.  Someone who has studied English or literature, or who just reads thoughtfully, but does not write fiction may have valuable criticisms.  Meanwhile, a fellow writer may only be trying to recreate the experience they had in reading a favorite book and not have much sense of how to create something new (for example, the legions of Tolkien imitators, a tribe that I hope I have abandoned wink).   You have to critique the critic: where are they coming from, are they part of your intended audience? And so on.  I agree with Jay Greenstein: a reviewer's suggestion may not be useful, but it can alert you to a problem that tripped them up and disrupted the flow of the story.
TerminalVerbosity
Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 6:07 AM
Joined: 11/11/2013
Posts: 43


This is a particularly tricky question for those writing for a younger audience. I've had about a dozen children aged 8-12 read part or all of my middle-grade novel, The Outlands, and they have enthusiastically said they loved it (with the exception of the youngest in the bunch, who said it was too difficult for her). Only two of those readers were my own kids, so I have to assume that they're telling the truth and not just saying it to spare my feelings  

As nice as it makes me feel that the target audience for the book seems to enjoy it, I need real, tangible feedback to get the story from first draft to publishable. For that, I'm relying on Book Country and a small circle of writers and careful readers whom I trust to give me constructive criticism. So maybe the distinction is not between readers vs. writers, but between those who are willing/able to take the extra time it takes to give concrete feedback? 

Each writer has to identify who those folks are and distribute manuscripts accordingly. My mother and sister, for example, are always my cheerleaders. They love absolutely everything I write and cannot find a single fault with it. They boost my ego enough to allow me to seek a different type of feedback from other people. My husband, for example, is my toughest critic. "Not bad for a first draft" is high praise coming from him. He's not a writer, but an obsessive reader who can point out the places where the pacing gets slow, or where I am providing too much backstory, or where something logically doesn't pan out. 

I covet feedback from fellow writers, though. Their feedback is usually the harshest, and sometimes it's even too harsh. But I rarely make it through a review written by another writer that doesn't contain a nugget of something I hadn't thought of, something that will improve the story, and that's what we're all after, isn't it?


DJS
Posted: Tuesday, February 4, 2014 10:52 AM

I just received an honest review of the first five chapters of The Commercial. Unfortunately, the novel's ending, being a sudden paradigm shift, must be read in order to understand the work. When the reviewer complained about the excessive product references. the cliches, the shallow characters, she had no idea that what she had read was a television show, a parody of the "vast wasteland." I wanted to keep the surprise ending a secret, but since it's not likely that the book will ever be read in its entirety, I'd like to present it now, if you will excuse my indulgence. Lance Pratt has been turned into a statue of salt by the "beaming" of his mystical, evil mentor and is being thrown through the bay window of his sixth-floor apartment.

          The fall ended with a thunderous crash, not in the street but on the lush carpet of another living room of another world. The glaring white eyes of the disconnected head gazed in rigid disbelief up at the window no longer defined as such but as the shattered screen of a huge television set. Lance recognized it immediately: the Dumont console of his childhood, when "Howdy Doody" and "Captain Video and his Video Rangers" had been his favorite television shows.As with Charles Kane muttering "Rosebud," a cryptic reference to his childhood sled while his castle burned around him, Lance, in one burst of tremendous resolve, spoke his final word:

                                                                                             "DUMONT!"

           Nearby the broken basalt home invader, whose abrupt entranced had gone undetected, six transfixed figures sat on a floral print divan: a middle-aged couple and two young males. Sitting on either side of this apparent family were a man and a woman, guests invited to watch a movie made expressly for the Dumont Broadcasting Company. Upon closer inspection, the identities of the watchers were revealed. They were the Nelson family, Ozzie, Harriet, David and Ricky. The guests were Robert Young and Donna Reed. Though remaining silent, you could tell by the smiles on their faces that they had utterly enjoyed the just concluded prime time extravaganza. While a bit racy at times, insensitive and totally bereft of politically correct speech, the watchers understood that it was "Sweeps Week" when advertizing rates were established and the networks vied to attract the biggest audiences by televising shows with strong adult content.

              Yes, this All-American family and their all-American guests had enjoyed the movie tremendously. Even the commercials!


Linnea Ren
Posted: Tuesday, February 4, 2014 11:58 AM

Both are very important to me. A writer often is unable to get their head away from their own style (as is clear from the first critique I ever received on here), but a reader doesn't always notice things the way a writer does. But sometimes what a writer likes a reader will be unable to appreciate, and likewise, often a writer notices too much and the reader will think it's fine.

 

Both are your audience. Both have valid points. What you as a writer should do is get and consider every opinion you can before trying to publish. The more people look at your work and give you advice, the more you can take in and decide what to do from there. 

 

Someone told me once that I shouldn't consider anyone's advice unless they've been published. I highly disagree. First of all, most published authors now a days are not good writers. That's evident by the amount of complaining being done over indie authors. Second of all, published authors tend to be haughty and think they know best. Third, they aren't my only audience, so their opinion means the same to me as someone who reads book after book after book.

 

I have two friends: twin sisters. One's a reader, one's a writer. I love giving them my work because they come back to me with excellent feedback coming their combined minds. Both are highly intelligent, and both know what to look for in a good book. But if I just looked to one sister, there'd be something lacking because one notices every tiny detail that bothers her, and the other pays more attention to how much enjoyment, fear, sadness, and excitement she gets out of it.

 

So basically, both are valid and equally so because BOTH are your audience. 

 

~Linnea


 

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