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HOW DO YOU USE REVIEWS?
GD Deckard
Posted: Thursday, February 7, 2013 8:58 AM
Rule Of Thumb
Stephen King (so I read) once said that he lets lots of people read his manuscript & if they criticize the same thing, he changes it. Otherwise, he leaves it alone. This makes sense (whether ot not Stephen King said it.)

Thank You
Thanks to Angela Martello, Timothy Maguire, Tom Wolosz, Carl E Reed, Hudson MacHeath, MGrant, Eric Scott Mathews, Sam Grazier, Samuel Muggington and Walt Hart, my work has received 10 reviews over the past year. A nice variety to consider when I'm trying to improve my writing and appeal to a broader readership than myself.

Stars
Forget the stars.

Catagories
I change them over time, to direct feedback to areas of my writing that I'm wondering about.

It's My Baby
Truth is, I find it easier to read other book's reviews. When reading criticism of my own book, it's soo easy to be stoopid. I have difficulty with advice on content, thinking, I want to make my writing better, not change my story! I have no difficulty thinking, "But, but, you don't understand what I'm doing here!" Or, "That is explained later in the story! You'll see!" But would a reader, trying to decide if they wanted to purchase a book, read beyond lines that bothered them? Would they buy the book thinking, I'll take this home and try to understand it. I'm sure things get better explained later in the story. No. Truth is, it's my baby but someday it will have to make a living in this world.

Print the Review
It's easier for me to absorb and use critical reviews if I can mark notes on a hard copy.

Thanks again to the other writers here who have taken the time to read my work and to offer me their best advice. You may safely ignore those rumours (probably started by Carl E Reed) that I have voodoo dolls of each of you.
Carl E Reed
Posted: Thursday, February 7, 2013 9:32 AM
Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 608


Very nice, GD! You keep writing and we'll keep reviewing.

To that end I'd like to reference Melissa Donovan's "Tips for Critiquing Other Writers' Work" here:

http://www.writingforward.com/writing-tips/tips-for-critiquing-other-writers-work"

Devour the Food, Not the Hostess

Whatever you do or say during your critique, your feedback should be directed at the writing, not the writer. Don’t start your comments with the word “you” — ever. Always refer to the piece, the sentence, the paragraph, the prose, or the narrative. You are judging the work, not the individual who produced it, and though compliments aimed at the writer might be well received, there’s a subtle but significant difference between pointing out flaws in the piece versus the person.

Let the Good Times Roll

When you are giving a critique, always start by emphasizing the good. This is the cardinal rule of effective critiquing, and I cannot emphasize this enough: always start by telling the writer what works and where the strengths lie. By doing this, you’re kicking things off on a positive note. Also, it’s much easier for a writer to hear where they have failed after they hear where they’ve succeeded.

Here are two examples to illustrate this point:

1. The language is effective, with strong, colorful images. I can really see this in my mind quite vividly. However, some of the wording sounds cliché, so one way to make this even stronger would be to come up with alternatives to the more commonly used phrases, like…

2. Well, there are a lot of clichés. You should have tried to use more original word choices. But your imagery is good; I can visualize what the piece is communicating.

The first example is an appropriate critique whereas the second is both unprofessional and inconsiderate. It’s much easier to let a little air out of an inflated balloon than to blow up a deflated one. It’s especially easier on the person who is on the receiving end of your feedback.

Help Clean up the Mess

Eventually, you’ll have to tell the writer where the piece falls short. Do this with grace. Avoid using strong negative language. Don’t repeatedly say things like “this is weak,” “you’re using the wrong words,” or “it’s boring.” Instead, use positive language and phrase your comments as suggestions for improvement:

  • This word is vague. A stronger word would be…
  • A better word choice would be…
  • This could be more compelling or exciting if…

 

Remember, you’re there to help, not to hurt. If someone appreciates your opinion enough to ask for it, then provide it a manner that is conductive to learning and supportive of the writer’s efforts to improve. Whenever possible, offer concrete suggestions. If you spot a weak word, try to offer a stronger replacement word.



 


Angela Martello
Posted: Thursday, February 7, 2013 8:25 PM
Joined: 8/21/2011
Posts: 394


Better than a voodoo doll, GD, you have the opportunity for payback by reviewing our work.

We're all human so I think it's only natural for us to get "stoopid" and defensive when reading a review of our work. There is the gut's initial reaction (I let my gut have its five minutes in the spotlight), but then I let my brain take over and carefully read and re-read the review. There are very good reviewers on this site, so-so reviewers, and some bad reviewers. But, there is always the chance that even the poorest compiled review will have some pearl of wisdom in it; something that will make me go, "Hmmmmm. Yes, yes. I suppose I could try that." (Of course, there are also points in every review that make me say, "Well, that's a matter of taste/preference/opinion.")

As for the stars - Yeh, I can't get too excited (or discouraged) by them. People seem to use vastly different criteria for the way they assign them. The constructive criticism and concrete examples/suggestions in the review is far more important to me than the stars.

With respect to the categories - wish we weren't limited to a handful at a time (hint, hint, oh, Book Country powers that be).

We put our hearts, souls, and minds into our writing. Some of us squeeze it in late in the evenings or a few hours in the weekend. We're creating worlds from stardust and molding characters out of clay and breathing life into them. And we want others to love our worlds and characters as much as we do. But we're also too close to our worlds, to attached to our characters. We need good reviewers to point out things that we're blind to.
Mimi Speike
Posted: Sunday, February 10, 2013 5:36 PM
Joined: 11/17/2011
Posts: 1016



Truth is, it's my baby but someday it will have to make a living in this world.

You've hit the nail on the head, GD. 

I'm a mess right now, trying to figure out a bunch of things, the most worrisome of which is:

Where do you cross a line, and stop commenting on a piece and start rewriting it? Is this in any way acceptable? For this is what I find myself doing all too often. And I believe I've offended a few people because of it.



Carl E Reed
Posted: Sunday, February 10, 2013 7:36 PM
Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 608


I hear ya, Mimi! We're always admonishing writers to "show, not tell" yet in giving criticism it can often feel like one hand is tied behind our syntactical backs: the urge to simply get in there and do it instead of wasting dozens and dozens of words attempting to explain what we're saying and why is, in many cases, all but irresistible. At least it is to me!

As long as you are very, very careful--and apologize to the writer for being proscriptive--and don't over-do it--I think any honest, decent writer recceiving valid constructive criticism would appreciate the opportunity to "compare-and-contrast" their own version against the critic's re-written one. I know I would. For two reasons: (1) If your version is better I just may learn something, and (2) If it isn't I still have learned something: My critic either missed the point completely or simply doesn't share my aesthetic sense and sensibilities.  

  
Tom Wolosz
Posted: Sunday, February 10, 2013 9:05 PM
Joined: 5/25/2011
Posts: 121


Well, another very interesting thread started by GD.  Bravo! If they don’t have a platinum icon for discussion starter they should create one just for you (maybe call it the GD award).

It is interesting that the comments seem to shift more towards how to give, or write reviews, than to the original “How do you use them.”  Be that as it may, here’s my thoughts.

There are really three types of critiques you get in reviews: opinion, plot, and mechanics. 

Opinion: “I don’t like this, this doesn’t work.”  These cover the spectrum from great help to the totally ignorable.  In one of my stories I was struggling with the proper ending sentence, and in another case with character motivation.  In both, I received reviews which pretty well said, “I don’t think this works.”  Looking over the story I agreed in one case, disagreed in the other, but in both cases I commented on the review and explained my point of view.  This generated a brief discussion and in both cases I came to see the problem more clearly and ended up revising and ending up with a better story.  In another story I don’t give the characters names.  I received reviews which said, “I don’t like not having names.  I find it hard to empathize with a character who does not have a name.”  I tried to explain my reason, and also point out that a name is just a label. If I call a character Man, or Max, or M’’gtnhjejh,  how much of a difference does it make?  (I realize that at one time the rule was that a character’s name HAD to convey characteristics, e.g., Rock Hudson; but I assume that such sobriquets finally passed on after they were made infamous in the porn industry , e.g., Miles Long.) No discussion ensued, so I assumed the reviewer really wasn’t all that interested anyway, and ignored the review.  Also in this category falls the infamous “I really don’t like this genre…” review (so why review the story???).

Plot:  This is the realm of plot inconsistencies and absurdities.  Personally, I am very happy when a reviewer points out that there is a problem with my plot line.  When writing a novel or novelette I try to keep notes and am constantly back checking for consistency.  I agonize over the consistency of my characters.  I must admit that I find that this is a major problem in a number of the stories I’ve reviewed.  Young writers often mistake “cool” for “makes sense” (but then if you’ve been to the movies lately that’s all too understandable).  Quite a while ago I started a thread entitled, “Would Your Character Really Do that?”  It died quickly.  I guess if you are penning a novel about a teen-aged zombie desperately trying to develop an acne cream it probably doesn’t matter, but if you are writing scifi, please at least try.  

Finally, Mechanics.  I will be eternally grateful to Kevin Haggerty for his close reading and careful listing of all the mechanical errors I made in writing the first two chapters of one of my stories.  He made me see what I was doing wrong (Strunk and White things, as he put it).  Also, Carl E. for pointing out that when two people are talking they do not end, or begin, every sentence with the other person’s name (also for pointing out that I committed at least one other of the “10 things that make him sigh”).  These may seem like small things, but they are extremely useful to a writer who is not getting much feedback locally. When someone takes the time to point out what they perceive as grammatical, or other, errors, I always take the time to check into them carefully.

Lastly, Mimi you are never rewriting, only suggesting.  If someone has a gaping hole in their plot and you suggest a way around it, that’s not rewriting, that’s trying to help.  When someone points out a better wording or more fluid sentence that’s not rewriting, that’s trying to help.  No one forces the writer to accept the suggestion. 

 

P.S. Just finished Hugo’s Les Miserables. Talk about telling, not showing! It would never get published today – what a shame.

 

 


Mimi Speike
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 12:23 AM
Joined: 11/17/2011
Posts: 1016



And what do I do with my own reviews? I read them, over and over. I try to embed them in my brain, so that when I work on my thing I can call them up from memory. It hasn't worked for me too well. It's easy to forget that stuff, sunk into the quicksand of my story.

Here's my new idea: I'm going to copy all my reviews into a word doc, and sort them out according to what aspect of my writing they deal with. I'm going to print them out and study them, and try to finally make some decisions.  

If I can decide which problems I will act on, and which I will continue to kick down the road, I will have made some kind of progress. It's the inability to either accept or reject that is holding me back. 

It's so easy to immerse myself in research and say, I'll deal with style after I iron out the mechanics of the plot. I'm busy trying to work Tycho Brahe into my story, he of the wardrobe of false noses (his own was sliced off in a fight) and the beer-loving pet moose. 

When I first read a few months ago about a noseless Danish nobleman astronomer, of exactly the right time period for me, the late sixteenth century, I swear to God, I jumped for joy.

  

GD Deckard
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2013 2:12 PM
lol Tom  I want that icon!
LeeAnna Holt
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:42 AM
Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662


Ah, reviews. Or, as Jay would correct us, critiques.

My short stories often get the same responses into what needs to be fixed, so I have no problem having to sort through everything and fix it.

My current novel WIP has been, shall we say, polarizing. With the "I just don't like it," comments aside, the constructive ones can all say different things. I get die hard epic fantasy fans who say I need to name everyone, and then people who don't read epic fantasy who tell me there are too many names as it is. People want more detail. People want less detail. That is a big one. I'm not a throw details at you kind of person, and at times I think I'm info dumping when I'm really not.

Someone once said they want to know more about my elves up front. When writing from a point of view of 5 year old girl, that's hard to do without chucking a reference book at the reader's head. The worst part, finding out about the role of elves and their politics is part of the plot. Yikes. So what does a reader do to accommodate such demands?

I've found that with the detail niggles, I can add a bit more. (But it's going to blow up my word count.) I have a tendency to underwrite, and decided to hint at things with that little red thread the reader can follow back and forward through the story. I will try to strike that balance that will make general fantasy fans happy while beefing up my world building, but I know I can't make everyone happy. Every writer should remember that.

I've had the problem where someone complained about a scene that didn't exist. I've had someone who hated the bawdy, best-buds language that many loved. Writers will always have those reviews where someone just hates on everything. I just try to swim through them. I always go back to the scene referenced and see if what someone says might help me out. Yet, there are moments where I just have to ignore it.

Carl E Reed
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:56 AM
Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 608


@LeeAnna: Re: "I've had the problem where someone complained about a scene that didn't exist."

:::ROFL!:::

That means your writing was so powerfully picaresque, evocative and transportive that it took over their brain and started manufacturing all-new scenes. Quite the compliment, really! 
LeeAnna Holt
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:58 AM
Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 662


I knew there was a reason we kept you around, Carl.

I didn't mention I've had someone complain about a character that didn't exist. How do ya like that?
Carl E Reed
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 2:55 PM
Joined: 4/27/2011
Posts: 608


Nothing would surprise me anymore!