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Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 37
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I believe ever since I have read the book, Mrs. Dalloway by Virginia Woolf, I have been facinated with creating a novel with 3rd person that incorporates a stream of consciences that allows for me to be able to give both the heroine and hero their thoughts through out the book without having to have a dedicated chapter to each unique point of view but to be able to stream from one mind to the next with a focus on the main characters in any given point of time in the novel.
There is a delicate balance when trying this particular type of writing that leans towards confusion if not done appropriately.
Has anyone been uber interested in this type of writing or is trying to implement it into their work as well? What difficulties do you come across and what have you tried to overcome it?
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Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 37
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Lol, I guess your right, serves me right for getting too excited about a topic to not do any revisions or double checking, Indeed Stream of consciousness. lol.
I totally agree on the buddy system on this one because our brains are soooo fantastical that they like to connect the dots themselves and so even re-reading it yourself is not enough to get it right because you already know what it is supposed to mean and supposed to be like. In that case it is very easy to miss a couple of steps to make the work understandable to another audience.
Peer reviews that point out those gaps in saying "what does this part mean" or " who is saying this" and ect are big helpers.
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Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 37
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@ks brown
That is alot of good information, and yes i was aware of omniscient pov.
but my post is more about a stream of thought created within such a pov. Being able to hop between minds but in a way that can be understood and not too confusion or that doesnt detract from the story.
I normal write in first person pov and have of late been trying my hand at the various other pov available and have become facinated with the potential of the stream of thought
Have you had any experience in writing in this format? What have you discovered helps you?
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Joined: 3/12/2011
Posts: 376
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Honestly? I've never seen stream-of-consciousness done well. I've seen a lot of novels that have it, some that are lauded for it, but...
I'm not bad at picking meaning out of mess, but most of the time stream-of-character consciousness becomes stream-of-author consciousness becomes a bloody mess of meaningless gabble on a page.
So... Not saying 'don't use it'. Saying 'use like habanero - with extreme care, because it's very potent'.
As for multiple streams of consciousness in one novel? If you can pull off one successfully, go for two. I like habanero. 
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Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 37
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@robert c roman
I kind of think of stream of consciousness like a rule of thumb to try to stay away from it but once you know the rules then you can try to bend them and see if it works.
I am currently working on a story called "torn" which is a paranormal romance but I have been trying my hand at integrating the stream of consciousness within it by getting into the head of more than just the main character that the story centers around.
So far I am liking it but then again my own mind knows what's going on and connects the dots hopefully someone elses brain is connecting the dots too. lol
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Joined: 5/30/2011
Posts: 2
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I haven't read too much of Virginia Woolf's work (started on To The Lighthouse while I was reading Hemingway for classes and never finished), but that particular style is one she's dominated the writing field with. It can work stylistically if managed well.
As Robert mentioned, however, keep in mind that the character consciousness and the author consciousness can become dangerously intermingled into a mess-o-consciousness. It isn't very hard to lose sight of a point of perspective because the mind tangentially started jumping all over the place.
Even in a flow of off the top of the head thought, there's a compositional balance that provides clarity, or at least a point to follow. Experiment with it, as it can be fun. Just be aware of how easily a reader can get lost without order.
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Joined: 5/10/2011
Posts: 69
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Ahhh, the wallpaper of the mind.
This is a very real struggle for me in my current MS posted here. I think it is the primary downfall of chapter 1.
One of the main reasons my initial drafts often come out in stream of consciousness is because that is how they sound in my head. I am very new to this craft. It merits mentioning that my primary expression of my artist self was as an actor. My extensive training in that craft constantly put me in the character's head, which as I have begun to develop my writing craft has come to be both an advantage and a disadvantage.
My difficulty with any kind of stream of consciousness is that I get stuck there for too long.
I happen to be most comfortable with 1st person POV, which I think lends itself to this very problem. So, what to do?
When I first started writing, I just did it. Sat down and plunked out what was in my head. Because of my lack of formal training in literary comp., it never occurred to me to do any formal outlining when working in a novel format I had a general plot in mind and I knew the characters really well. They were in my head. (I can" hear" them-sort of.) I wouldn’t dare try to write a theatrical script without one, but that is because I had been trained to. The more I have learned about this craft, the more I see how valuable a more detailed outline could be for me, specifically in this area. As I am revising, adding some more structure before I draft is helping me stay more "removed" from the characters and use their stream of consciousness more judiciously. For me, a detailed outline of the scene's objective and arc has become a useful tool in overcoming my misuse of stream of consciousness. When yielded well and with caution, I believe it can be a powerful tool.
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Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 37
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I also have the issue of , well , a lack of outline. I kind of just follow what comes to me as it comes and this also leads to the problem of writers block from time to time but I rather enjoy not outlining because writing is more enjoyable for me that way. But then once the draft is out there then revisions take place to try to smooth out the quirks of sloppy mind to mind melding and of course any plot holes or more character developement of adding a scene there or editing a scene there.
I understand your acting background because for me writing is like watching a movie in my mind that I plop my butt down and try to write what I see. And though you are trying to mend your ways of non outlining it makes me feel happy that I am not the only one who just lets my thoughts toss up on the page and then go back for editing. Its like a vaguely known adventure that helps me be actively involved in the story so that I see it to the end instead of having it sit there abandoned.
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Joined: 5/10/2011
Posts: 69
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The way you describe fits my experience to the tee. "...like watching a movie in my mind..."
That is just how it happens for me. I am learning to appreciate that process rather than judge it.
So, thanks for the encouragment in that direction!
Looking forward to reading 'Torn'
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Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 37
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The problem with watching a movie in my mind is that sometimes its like watching a television and it switches channels on me. I have to focus on the current movie playing and keep at it. This site and fellow writers and friends help me stay focus and accountable to the movie I started in order to finish it to the end.
I am glad I am not the only one, It makes writing fun.
thank you for your support <3
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Joined: 3/17/2011
Posts: 88
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Hi Stevie,
A good writer friend of mine thinks of this sort of thing in terms of "the big brag." That's when you set up something at the top of your story that says you're a genius by the simple fact that you're going to attempt it and then you have to make good on that brag and prove to the reader that you are indeed a genius. Stream of consciousness itself is a big brag--"I will convince you that you are simply listening in on the random thoughts of my MC and you will stay interested!" Then there's the big brag of writing a stream of consciousness for a character of the opposite sex--"I'm such a student of human nature that I can simulate the inner most thoughts of a man or woman with equal success!" Then there's the slightly less obvious brag of being able to keep the reader interested when you constantly reveal the secret thoughts of both the lovers in your romance--"You will be so delighted by my characterizations that you will not need the attendant joys of doubt and discovery that most romances depend upon to build suspense!" And finally there's the cumulative brag that says you're gonna do all of this in a single book and not screw it up!
Another thing: in order to justify, y'know, aesthetically, two pov's in the same story the pov's need to be very distinct, very individual. So not only do both your pov's need to be thoroughly convincing they need to be unique. The innermost thoughts of a person are drawn from their entire lives and so to write your male pov, I'd think you would need a pretty thorough, painstaking biography for him going back to his earliest memories and prolly a good sketch of both his parents as well, focusing on what their primary expectations for their son were/are (not in the book itself, of course, but as preparation).
Also, the whole process of romantic love is about synchronizing and harmonizing and that also tends to be the wish of the writer of romance so I'd think you would have to be a strict disciplinarian with yourself and push difference and discord between your two pov's all the way.
Also, as a narrative form, stream of consciousness is primarily concerned with your character's consciousness and not your character's environment and a lot of readers don't go for that. A stream of consciousness book is fundamentally character driven and some people will want the plot to take center stage and it never really will. It will always be refracted through the consciousness of the characters. So it may be difficult to ground the reader in the story without resorting to omni at some point or other.
None of this is to say you shouldn't go ahead and write your stream of consciousness romance, only that it's a stunningly ambitious project as far as I can see.
Me, I'm writing a sci-fi action/psychological thriller in the 1st person present so it amounts to a stream of consciousness novel, though the reader isn't reading the mc's mind. I think of the narrative as something like a futuristic thought-activated twitter feed--the mc's conscious thoughts and feelings as he moves through his day and his life. The big, big challenge there is that since the book takes place in the future I can't rely on a shared cultural context between the reader and the narrator to help the reader keep up. The narrator throws a lot of strange things the reader's way without explaining any of it directly, because he's not consciously talking to the 21st century reader. The book is more of a diary that a reader might find sometime in the far future. And as I said, the focus is on his consciousness much more than his environment so a lot of the most important information about his situation and what's at stake can only be implied, rather than demonstrated outright.
Thankfully, a lot of readers find all this very intriguing, but some really have no patience for it at all. I've had to accept that if my book succeeds it will prolly be one of these love it or hate it type o' deals (come to think of it, seems quite a few of the big, big successes these days are hated by a sizable chunk of the community--c.f.: Twilight, Dan Brown, Dragon Tattoo--so maybe that's a good thing). I wouldn't be at all surprised if your book turned out the same way and all that means to me is that you need to be very careful whose criticism of your book you take to heart and whose criticism you politely, but firmly, reject.
Just my thoughts on a topic much on my mind these days. Best of luck with your book!
-Kevin
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Joined: 5/5/2011
Posts: 37
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I think most of my plays with stream of consciousness might stay as stories that I write to please myself and possibly just writing exersises. But its neat to think about it and sometimes it really gets used well. But for now my story is mostly just omni with bits of both sides thoughts intermingled throughout.
who knows I might change it up completely when I am finished writing the plot/story out but I enjoy just sticking it out there on the page and seeing what comes out.
And as for the readers, I firmly believe that if you write something for everyone then the work is mediocre at best. It is those who write for themselves and a particular group that do the best because if someone doesnt hate it then someone doesnt absolutely love it either.
I prefer to have a following of lovers and haters than no following at all
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Joined: 4/30/2011
Posts: 19
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I agree. Stream-of-consciousness (SofC) can be confusing to readers. SofC is actually a different point of view. For 3rd-person narratives SofC offers a more intimate glimpse at a character. For 1st-present narrative, it may signify an aside by the author. Unless the reader is forewarned somehow, the change in point of view can be startling and confusing. I have used two methods to alert readers. 1) change from past tense to present tense or present to future; 2) define a different paragraph format that includes SofC passages. Maybe someone else can think of other ways to nail down this problem.
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