Submit
Report Bugs
FAQ
Your Discussions Manage
Discussions you started

Got something to say? Pick a topic and start a discussion. It will be saved for you to follow and track.

Browse Topics
Discussions you're Following Join Now

See what our community is saying about your interests. Follow your favorite topics here.

Search Discussions
    Discussions you started ()
  • Discussions you're Following ()
Discussions recommended by your connections will appear here
Recommendations from your Connections ()
What's this? 
Genre Talk > Fantasy

Talk about everything and anything related to the fantasy genre here.

More search options
Sign in to start a Discussion Sign in to comment
Discussion tips 

The sliding scale of Fantasy: Realism or Magic?

70
Posted on 3/3/2012
You must sign in to Follow
I'm just wondering how much magic you other fantasy writers inject into your stories. I've been struggling with some of my stories because I tend to make the actions and abilities of most of my characters a little too realistic, to the point that if I wasn't writing about "another world" I would almost hesitate to label my stories fantasy. 

I really want to write one of those beautiful, magical, borderline non sequitur dreamworld fantasies like Mirrormask or such, but I just don't know if I've got it in me to let go of the urge to have everything happen logically.

So magic vs. realism. What is your preference as a writer, and what is your preference as a reader (if they differ)? And how do you like to portray your preferences? 
Showing 1 to 10 of 23 comments
1 year, 2 months, 16 days ago

How much magic you want to put in depends on how your world functions. You can have worlds that would die if the magic does, or those in which no one knows it exists. You can have magic as another tool of daily life, or it can be limited.

In my own made up little world, magic is something that anyone can practice (more like years of study) if they want, but like any skill, it helps to have some talent. The little hitch is that people have adapted to a magic system that broke thousands of years ago. It isn't what it used to be, and it is slowly being replaced by technology. I wanted a little realism to how magic might function and what might become of it in a world that is crossing the line from stagnancy (how everything has been), to progress. I don't want to bore you with my extensive notes on magic use in my world and in what way it broke, but there is the basics to answer your question.

In other words, magic for me functions in a more logical vein. My mages/wizards/sages or what have you, also have a tendency to function as scientists and engineers. They don't just go into arcane history or spell crafting. Magic also has a tendency to be stronger in certain people depending on their family history, you know, like the real world works.

If  you want me to be more specific just let me know.
Is this a constructive response?
2
0
1 year, 2 months, 16 days ago

Thanks for the reply! I'm mostly just wanting to gain perspective on how other authors write their fantasy or what they look for as they're reading someone else's. 

My main story right now (Unfit) is a world where magic is possible (they more or less have to tap into one of the four deities for it and then it's mostly used by the upper class), but it doesn't factor into the story until at least halfway through. If anything, I've got Unfit's religious/magic system almost too planned out, but I still feel like it's lacking that really imaginative, whimsical edge that you'd find in a Neil Gaiman book or such. For Unfit, that kind of thing may not even be appropriate since magic is only used by very accomplished academics, but as I think of my other stories, I'd like to take a new approach. 

I guess you could say I'm looking for inspiration by proxy. :)
Is this a constructive response?
1
0
1 year, 2 months, 16 days ago

Magic exists in my fantasy world, but it doesn't dominate it. People have prophetic dreams and one character is known for being able to interpret them. I plan to also introduce a "witch" character, who uses a more nature based form of magic.
Is this a constructive response?
2
0
1 year, 2 months, 16 days ago

First, you can never "let go of the urge to have everything happen logically." If you invent an illogical magic system, no one will read it.

I think you'll find that fantasy authors vary widely in how they use magic, how much magic exists in their stories, and who uses it. How you use magic defines your genre, not the other way around.

Even your questions, though, can inform your story. If it's a question of who uses magic, why are there such limitations? Are they genetic, societal? Are non-magic users jealous?

Is magic seen as a good or bad thing?

Is magic only used by some because magic itself is in limited supply? Is the supply self-sustaining, or is it finite?

And practically speaking, what does magic do for your story? It doesn't have to be the most important element (that should always be your characters). How much do you really need to tell the story of these people you have created?

It's your story. Tell it the way seems right to you.
Is this a constructive response?
2
0
1 year, 2 months, 16 days ago

With my work of contemporary fantasy I have a little bit of magic thrown in there however, I have disguised it well enough that only the family at the heart of the story know of it. My main character's best friend, although quite involved with the family, does not even suspect of the magic that is connected to her friend or even at work in the world around her. I cannot give away too much but the magic at the heart of the story goes back as far as 480 A.D. and has been kept a very guarded secret by this family and their kin for centuries.

As for my other work of fantasy, I have chosen to keep it out of the plot completely. The "magic" I use throughout that story is built more on foreign superstition and legend rather than magic itself. Everything has a natural explanation while seeming to be "magical" to characters in the story.
Is this a constructive response?
3
0
1 year, 2 months, 10 days ago

I tend to view magic in fantasy in one of two ways - it is either a central, driving force for the narrative, or it is a known fact but is there to give a familiarity for the readers and to give one (or more) characters abilities which will help or hinder the protagonist.  For the story I am working on right now, magic is uncommon but accepted for the most part, though some jealousy exists.  However, there is a more powerful and more dangerous form of magic which is despised by those who know of it, and it is that which drives the story forward.

So as far as magic goes - both as a reader and as a writer, if magic or a magic-like power exists in the world, I want it to feel organic and true to the rest of the story.  Don't have it for the sake of having it.  Make it mean something.  But above all else, do not use it as a deus ex machina to write characters out of a sticky situation because there is nothing else to do.  As much as I am loathe to take a shot at LotR, that was always the thing which bothered me towards the end.  Too many convienient uses of magic, ghosts, etc to save the day.  Still one of my faves though, so please don't hurt me!

Where I tend to stray from common fantasy is the proliferation of hordes of monsters and dragons and things which seem to exist in the world, and then only in places where the heroes need to go.  I avoid goblins and demons and stuff of that type.  Where there are things other than my human characters (at this point, only 1 that the readers know of) they tie directly into the story and their existence is crucial to the plot.
Is this a constructive response?
2
0
1 year, 2 months, 10 days ago

I just thought of something that must be said. Harper, you want a dream-like quality, almost a whimsical feel to a work you want to write. To achieve this you don't need a non-logical magic system. Think of a beautiful sunset with someone you love. It has this overwhelming power to it that enraptures you and draws you in. It might even capture a prominent memory spot. There is something about its beauty that almost makes you weep, but you always wear that goofy smile of content even if for a few moments. That there is "real" magic.

I thought of this when I remembered a question someone had asked me when I was about 11 or 12. They asked me, "Do you think magic exists?" As geeky as I was, I said no. He said, "You're wrong. Have you ever seen a beautiful sunset with a person you love? That is magic." I know I talked something that you should consider when creating a magic system, but this should remain in the forefront of your mind. It does with me, even when I'm writing about how my MC threw very cold water in an enemy's face because she failed to generate an icicle.
Is this a constructive response?
3
0
1 year, 2 months, 7 days ago

Magic can be so far-ranging.  The current WiP has three different kinds, one which manipulates the weather, one which has a finite set of incantations with pretty limitless possibilities, and one is just there as an adaptation for a culture but doesn't do anything active.  The first is that way because it felt right for that culture.  The second is that way because of genetics/creation stuff.  It's limitless in possibilities in that one spell depending on your mindset and thoughts when saying it it will have different effects on different things.
Is this a constructive response?
2
0
1 month, 11 days ago

Bumping up for new members to see!
Is this a constructive response?
0
0
1 month, 9 days ago

Well, let me put this out there and see if someone wants to disagree.

Nobody wants realism in Fantasy. Medieval conditions were appalling by modern standards, and reading about people in those conditions is just not going to be any fun. Try imagining "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" or Terry Gilliam's "Jabberwocky" without any jokes, and you've got a start on realistic Fantasy. Disease, pestilence, raw sewage, abominable social conditions, subjugation of women -- and let's not forget, absolutely everyone going about unwashed, undeodorized, and completely lacking in dental hygiene. That dashing, swashbuckling hero? He smells like someone sprayed a keg of beer over the carpet of a run-down gymnasium's weight room. The lovely, graceful princess? Mossy, carious teeth when she smiles, hairy legs and armpits when you get her in the royal boudoir.

Fantasy is only tolerable when we sweep these sordid bits of its reality under the rug -- or solve them with magic.

So the spectrum we're really talking about is materialism versus magic, not realism versus magic.

Along that spectrum, I prefer to write in worlds tilted strongly toward magic, in part because they allow me to clean up some of the untidiness of medieval life instead of just pretending it's not there. In a world where magic is moderately common, it takes only a few well-positioned sorceresses in history to break the political dominion of men, and the presence of wards and charms against pregnancy permits a significantly more egalitarian society than actually prevailed in our own medieval era.

I also enjoy exploring ramifications and repercussions, so every brand of magic that I dream up gives me the opportunity to ask, "What would the world be like if this capability existed?"

Put all that together, and I get something that looks like the world I've set my main series in, where dozens of different varieties of magic exist, and the rarest sort of wizard is the true generalist who can actually do many different things.
Is this a constructive response?
2
0
Showing 1 to 10 of 23 comments
Sign in to start a Discussion Sign in to comment Return to top

Report Abuse

Please choose the reason that best describes your concern. If you feel any content infringes your copyright, please refer to our General Terms of Use for information on copyright infringement and takedown procedures.

Submit Cancel

Discussion Tips

  • Search discussions before posting. Your question may already have been answered.
  • Ask specific questions when starting a new discussion.
  • Stay on topic.
  • No spam.
  • No flame wars or personal attacks.
  • For more information on about Book Country Discussions, please see our Community Guidelines.
Close
tooltip
Close

RSS Subscriptions

Book Country provides an RSS feed for those who like to read our Industry content in an RSS Aggregator.

Choose from the options below:

Go
Close

Ignore

Are you sure you want to ignore this request or recommendation? It will be removed from your shelf.

Yes Cancel
Close

Are you sure you want to block this person?

You will no longer receive Connection Requests from this person, and they will not know that you have blocked them. You can unblock this person at any time in your account.

Cancel

is now blocked.
You can manage your blocked people in your account.

Ok
Close

Block User

Are you sure you want to block this person?

Cancel

This member is now blocked.
You can manage your blocked people in your profile.

Ok
Close

Disconnect

You will no longer be able to view this user’s Connections, read their complete books, or make Recommendations to them.

The user will not receive notification that you have Disconnected, but they will probably figure it out later. You can also stay in touch more casually by Following this person instead.

Cancel

You are now Disconnected from this member.

Ok
Close

Accept Connection Request

Are you sure you want to Connect with this person?

By accepting this Connection Request, you will be allowing this member to read all the fiction you've posted, view your Connections, and the books, people, discussions, and topics you are Following. You can also receive Recommendations from your Connections and make Recommendations to them.

If you'd rather receive more casual updates on this person's activity, choose to Follow this person instead.

Yes, I want to Connect No, thanks
Close

Request to Connect

You must be signed in to Connect to this person.

Please sign in or join now if you want to Connect with this person.

Sign In
Nevermind.

 Connection Request pending

Your request has been sent to the member.

OK
Recommend to a Connection

Recommend: [Author]

Submit Cancel
Sign In to Your Account
Recommend to a Connection

Done! You have recommended [Author] to [recipient].

Close

Badges

Book Country Badges are awarded for community activity and accomplishments. You can earn badges for positive contributions to the site, such as writing a highly rated book, or contributing many reviews and discussions.

Each badge comes in bronze, silver, and gold. You’ll start with bronze, and then earn silver and gold as your activity grows. There are also versions of each badge at the genre level, master genre level (i.e., SF, Romance, etc.), and for all of Book Country. Our staff is always working hard to ensure fairness and good karma. The more you participate, the more rewards you’ll receive.

What are Preferred Genres?

Preferred Genres help you track your interests and Connect with similar members. You can select as many genres as you like.

The Top Books and Top People in your Preferred Genres will automatically appear on your home page, updating every two weeks.

How do Recommendations work?

Recommendations make it easy to share interesting content with other Book Country members. You can recommend a book, discussion, person, or article to your Connections, and they can make Recommendations to you.

Recommendations appear in your notifications bar.

What are Connections?

Connections are your friends and colleagues on Book Country who you have allowed additional access to your work. Accepting a Connection request lets that member read all of the fiction you’ve posted (there is no word limit). Connections can also view who you are Connected to, as well as the books, People, Discussions, and Industry Topics you are Following. You can also receive Recommendations from your Connections and make Recommendations to them.

To add a new Connection, send a Request to Connect. The member to whom you would like to Connect must accept your request to make it official.

What is Following?

Following is a way to casually keep in touch with a person on Book Country. By Following a person, you will receive updates on their public activities on the site, such as uploading a new book or responding to a discussion. People you Follow can’t see your Connections, make Recommendations to you, or see that you are Following them.

What are Private Books?

Private books cannot be read by site visitors or community members. Private books do not appear on the Genre Map or in searches. Some writers may choose to temporarily make a book private during revisions or while meeting with agents and publishers.

You can repost a private book to make it visible again. All comments and ratings will be saved.

What are Deleted Books?

Writers can Delete their books at any time, for any reason. On rare occasions, the Book Country staff may Delete a book for copyright violations. Deleted books are completely removed from Book Country, along with all comments and reviews. Deleted books cannot be recovered.

What are Locked Discussions?

Locked Discussions are discussions that can still be read but cannot accept new responses. Discussions can only be locked by a Book Country administrator.

Peer Reviews

As a community for writers and readers, we want our members to receive thoughtful and constructive feedback on their work. Book Country Peer Reviews are designed to help writers improve in their chosen craft.

You must be a member to rate and review. Members can review a book once per draft.

Each review has several sections:

Overall Impressions

Share your general thoughts on the book. Did the writer categorize the book accurately on the Genre Map? Were you engaged by the material? What really worked and what needs work? Comment on whatever else you like.

Feedback Criteria

When uploading a book, writers can select two areas on which they’d like guidance. Provide more detailed feedback based on these criteria.

Star Ratings

Give each section a star rating from 1 to 5. This will help us determine how the book compares to others in the community. Your must rate each section to save your review. But remember, star ratings are not just a scale of bad to good; it’s also a scale from rough draft to polished manuscript.

Saving Your Review

It’s easy to work on your review over a period of time with our “Save for Later” feature. Please be aware, though, that if you have a review saved and the writer of the book changes his/her feedback criteria, the feedback that you’ve inputted for any old criteria will be automatically removed. Additionally, if the writer uploads a new draft of the book, your review will be lost. So don’t sit on it too long!

Reviewing Published Books

When writing your review of a published  book, please bear in mind that the author is not longer revising the project. For example, you may want to write your review as if you are giving your opinion to other potential readers.

Close
Request to Connect

Heads up! By Connecting with this person, you are allowing this user to view your other Connections, see who you’re Following, and read your complete books. You can also receive Recommendations from your Connections, and make Recommendations to them.

The other user must accept your Request to make the Connection official.

Yes, I want to Connect On second thought, I’ll cancel

Your request has been sent to the member

[and will be active for 30 days].

OK
Recommend to a Connection

Done! You have sent a recommendation to .

Loading
Close
How to Use the Book Country Reader
Use the right and left arrows to move forward or backward through the book you’re reading.

You can also use the tabs at the bottom of the Reader to customize your reading experience. Use the tab on the far left to pop open the Table of Contents. The remaining tabs—from left to right—allow you to perform searches with the text, increase the font size, and change the font type from Serif to San Serif. The bar at the bottom of the page lets you see how far you are in the book; you can also use the slider to move backward and forward through the text.

And lastly, if you’re a Book Country member and are logged in, the Peer Review fields will open up next to the text of the book; you can use it to take notes as you read and save them for later when you want to write your Peer Review.

  • Click the left arrow to view the previous page.

  • Click the right arrow to view the next page.

  • Write a review of the book.
     

  • Use page tools to customize your experience and jump to sections of the book.

Close
Close
Table of Contents
Bookmarks
Bookmark this page
Sign-in to the right or Join Now to add a bookmark.
Search
lorem...
Change Type Size
Aa Aa Aa
Change Type Face
Serif Sans-Serif
Close
Upload Your Book
Start by entering the title of your new book.
Please enter a title for your book
Oops, I'm not uploading a new book, I want to modify a book I previously uploaded.
Next Cancel
Close
Sign out

Are you sure you want to sign out?

Yes
Oops. I don't want to sign out.

It's Easy to Share Your Book

Sign in to upload your book Close
book
Your New Book

  • Get started!

    It's easy! Upload chapters at your own pace or your entire book if it's ready. Make changes any time you like.

  • Support your peers

    Everyone contributes at Book Country. After you provide three peer reviews, you can share your work with the community.

  • Get feedback

    Book Country is a supportive community of fiction writers and readers who offer constructive feedback to help you improve your craft.

  • Your big break

    Our members include published authors and industry professionals. You never know who might discover your work.

Close
Remove your comment

Are you sure you want to delete this comment?

Yes No
Close
Delete your discussion

Are you sure you want to delete this discussion?

Yes No