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My first attempt at a young adult book. This is a prologue and I want to know: Does it work as YA? Does it intrigue you?
This is my first attempt at YA. I'm aware that it's a short excerpt. Also, know that this is a prologue... These characters will not be heard from again. We will hear ABOUT them, not from them. I'd love to know: - Is this effective for YA? Is the language fitting? It's a "dark" opening, but is it TOO dark? - Are you intrigued by this chapter? This is a MOMENTOUS occasion and will be referred back to a lot, but I want to know if it works on its own. - World-Building- I wanted to make it as subtle as possible. Did this work? Did you need more? Less? Thanks for reading!
I would really like to read more of this so overall, I would say the prologue is effective to capture my attention."Is this effective for YA?"This question is not one I believe anyone can truly answer - how do you define what such a broad audience would enjoy! Children are easy to target as a broad audience, but the moment they decide to have their own little minds and opinions it becomes tricky. For example, I would say Dante's Inferno is not a story a middle school kid would enjoy, but I know someone that thoroughly loved (and truly grasped) the book at that age!"Is the language fitting?"I would say yes. There are some words that would provoke and intrigue someone that may not have as wide of a vocabulary as others. (But again, this is a generalization - my younger sister has had a wide vocabulary since the day she could talk!)"It's a "dark" opening, but is it TOO dark?"No. Certainly not, especially not these days. If young teenagers are watching the... *things* (trying not to value judge) that are put on TV and in movies these days, they can most absolutely handle this (;
The dialogue played well in my opinion. More than that, I truly enjoyed the narrative voice for a prologue - I can't say I would enjoy it as much if the whole story were written in this fashion, but as a prologue that is detailing a historical moment, it seems very fitting in my opinion.
There seems to be just enough of a world built around the prologue to hint at more without leaving a confused, "What, where am I? What's going on?" lingering. I am curious about the Delvean's and the different cultures/cities, but I wouldn't expect to know all of that in just a prologue! Assuming more is explained later, then I am good to go.
There was a lot that I liked about this excerpt and all of it has to do with how you used descriptive words to help set the tone of your story. There is a lot I can say about it, but I will focus on the questions you asked in your Author's Notes.Is this effective for YA?I don't see why not. There are plenty of examples of YA novels which have dark underones and it is very effective. Harry Potter comes to mind...Is it too dark?No such thing. Moving on...Are you intrigued by this chapter?Very much so. And, to be honest, it wasn't the story so much as the way you wrote it. It was beautifully done. I did have a question as I was reading, though: One of your characters states that what happened on the ship was unnatural - no blood, but boils. Would pox be considered unnatural but murder natural? That's a genuine question, by the way. I don't know what your character's beliefs are.Does it work on its own?Again, yes. While there is not much to go on, you offered enough so that I know I would continue reading about these characters and what they're doing. I've been hooked!Does the subtle word-building work?I don't know what you mean by this. "Word-building" to me implies the creation of new words, but this is probably a common term used by creative writers with some other meaning altogether. I'm out of the loop on some things. So I am forced to guess. I'm taking this to mean how you've structured your sentences? If this is the case, you tossed some really excellent description into your prologue. Here are some examples that especially stood out to me:- 27% "The oars, like abandoned children..."- 68% Death had ingored this distinction..."- 98% But instead of feeling like these flames..."These sentences are beautifully done and help to not only explain but they create strong mental images. Do I need more or less?I think you've found a good balance. You're story moves at a good pace but it's enjoyable and well put together.
There is no problems here. You're not overloading the reader with unnessary babble nor are you neglecting your character's voice by allowing your narration do all the work.
Your setting seems to fit the story. I don't get where they are exactly, but I also don't sense that its important. A lot of times I might make comments about wanting to know more about the surroundings, but not in this case.
Okay, so you're already starting by giving us a pretty hard task: will this work for YA lit. That, and it's a prologue, makes it even harder.I can only think of one traditional fantasy in any reasonable time that could be classified as YA lit (Eragon). It really doesn't seem to be a very fertile genre. On top of that, since this is a prologue, it's hard see how it'll be specifically YA instead of just traditional fantasy.As a story, though, it seemed interesting enough for a prologue. I'm intrigued how the ship will play into all this, or the plague, or just the poor nation. The writing is fairly clear, though I'm not quite sure which characters we should be interested in, if any. The point of view seems to be from Holbry, but at times that felt a little bit muddled.I also know this is a prologue, but I feel like we could get to know some of these characters a little better, or at least the main character of the section. Right now he feels a little bit like a red shirt just thrown in for ship searching fodder
So far so good. Feels natural, it doesn't come across as either too verbose or too sparse.
Also a difficult one to rate. Obviously a different world from ours, and clearly in the traditional fantasy, but other than that I don't really feel like I know anything about the world that they are in. Some political intrigue with the Last War, obviously at least some magic, but how is this different from every other fantasy book? Maybe this is the right amount for a prologue, you don't want to get too overwhelmed by world building, but I think it'd be better with just a little bit more.
I'm not partial to prologues. If we're not going to see these people again, then I don't know what to think. The burning ghost ship has significance for Holbrey, and at this point it is a mystery as to what he sees in the flames. I think I'd like to have had a clue as to what the flames mean to Holbey.The opening scene where the general rides up to the two soldiers, is pretty solid. Somehow I get a sense of a large area of space, like a sweeping landscape upon which these men are small. It probably has to do with the point of view you're using. Whatever, you paint a vivid picture.I love this: "The General was a man of exquisite tastes. He worked hard to prove that he had earned his wealth." The reader is given a concise revealing of not only the General's character, but Holbrey's as well. We know something of his feelings regarding the General, and that he, Holbrey, is capable of ironic wit, because it is he who is thinking these thoughts. Holbrey might also see a bit cynical and jaded about something, though we don't yet know what happened to make him that way.I guess this is told pretty much from Holbrey's point of view, but through his thoughts the reader gains insights into the characters of Dawson and the General.I expect that the necklace that the General rides off with will factor into the story, and again, as with the flames, I'd like more; not necessarily a hint, but perhaps a bit more description to fix it's significance in the mind of the reader.I don't know what to think about the part where the General uses his metal detector, whether this story is going to have elements of sci fi or fantasy or something like that. Not that there's anything wrong with that, if you have a reason to write it that way. Overall, well written, caught and held my interest, but there isn't enough story yet for me to tell whether this is going to go anywhere. I suggest that you expand a bit on the flames and/or the necklace, give the reader a sense of what might lie ahead.
No problems here. There isn't a lot of dialog, as befits the scene. The words of the characters help to describe their personalities, feelings, and relationships to one another.
It's always difficult to set a scene unless you've actually been there yourself. This of course is unavoidable in historical fiction, unless you have access to a time machine. I think you've set this up fairly well, so that as a reader I feel that I am (or at least I'd like to be) there, as an observer if not a participant.
As always, I’m commenting on approach and structure, not story, since if it’s told well any story can be interesting. Give Stephen King any situation and he’ll write a scene that’s presented in a way to make you want to read more. And given that it’s what readers come to us for, providing moment-to-moment reading pleasure for our reader should come first.For me there was too much of report feel to the narration. It lacked the flow that would draw the reader in. You open with, “The two guards stood at attention.” But that tells the reader nothing useful because you’ve not set the scene the guards appear in or given a viewpoint from which to “see” them. It appears that the speakers you mention with are the guards you mention , but no military I know of allows people who are at attention to hold a conversation. And except for show, guards need to be alert to threat, not standing at attention—on guard, in other words. What you’re doing is “setting the scene,” without a viewpoint. By that I mean you’re talking about the scene not describing it as the reader would see it. If the general’s party is in the distance, as you first say, could anyone see their horses’ breath in the air? No. What that does is change the opening from the observation of living beings in movement, and under observation, to a report from someone who is not on the scene. In short, if we’re with the guards, be with them, at least as a third set of eyeballs. And talk about their local situation. Make them stamp their feet because of the cold. Have them express relief that the general has finally arrived so they can get away from the stink of death. Have them note that the general is with the party, which gives them excuse to note what he’s wearing, and in general, comment on the situation, so the reader learns what you’ve told them in the existing prose, but by observation and eavesdropping on the conversation rather than by lecture. And stay in real-time, rather than giving summations that take the reader away from the scene in progress and into your memory.If you’re adapting an omniscient POV you need to play the role of camera and present a verbal record of what the camera sees. Thus we start with a “long shot,” slowly move in, and then focus on the participants. Some specifics:• The General was a man of exquisite tastes. He worked hard to prove that he had earned his wealth.Too general. What can “exquisite tastes” mean to the reader when we don’t know what he’s wearing other than gold spurs, or anything meaningful about his means and their society? And, “worked hard?” At what? It seems you’re falling into the trap of telling what you’re seeing in your mind without giving the reader the actual picture. Then you explain, as if the reader had seen and asked. So, the reader knows that you’re impressed by what the unknown general is wearing, and feel the need to tell the reader that you are. But as an outsider, who knows only what you tell me…On the page, as in life, context is vital to understanding.• Blood money, Dawson claimed once in a quiet, serious voiceWe don’t know Dawson or anything about him. So learning that he once said it, in response to unknown motivation, tells the reader nothing useful toward understanding this scene or his remark. It may be true, and the remark justified, but again, it lacks context for a reader, so it’s information, but not useful information. In general, always keep in mind that the reader wants to know what’s happening, not what happened. Since this prolog is to give history in a more palatable way than a report, does it make sense to give a history of this history? I take the view that the reader will probably forget—they may put the book down for a week between readings—so we give them what they need when they need it, and as the characters perceive it.• Dawson bristled. "Not fear, General, merely the law. We are not permitted to search a foreign ship without your consent."Minor point. You call him general, but have him act as a local commander. Remember, we don’t know how big the army is, or its organization.But that aside, how can the general tell, simply by riding up, if they have or have not searched the ship? He can’t. In fact, why wouldn’t he assume they have, and have hidden anything valuable they found where they can find it later?• He stepped past them and ran a hand down the stern of the wooden shipHe’s standing in the water. Seems a bit silly to get his nice clothing wet simply to pet the ship. It seems you’re assigning actions, not having him react to what he perceives as his personality and needs dictate.• One caught the wind and slapped angrily against the solemn seaYou’re writing for pretty and it shows. An oar strong enough to move what you call a ship is far too heavy to be moved by the wind when the end is in the water. And oars, when not manned, are either in the water or held up out of it, so what you mention is impossible.• "What signs of unnatural death do you see that have eluded my keen eye, Holbry?"The man has just arrived, and as far as we know he’s not looked at the ship from that distance (and since it’s grounded wouldn’t the deck be above his field of view?), so this doesn’t work. And since he next says he fears the same thing as the guard, and has reached the same conclusion, this remark makes no sense.- - - - - - - - - -Over all, this can work, as can almost any plot. But you need to focus on the presentation and make that flow rather than simply inform. The people in your story aren’t there to illustrate plot points. History focuses on facts and events, but few people buy history books as light reading because there’s no uncertainty. Fewer still, want to study in order to enjoy a novel. The problem is that history is a record, and isn’t happening as we watch. That means there’s no reason to speculate if a given action will bring the results we think it will. But if we learn of events as-the-characters-in-the-story-do, and in the WAY they do, we’ll speculate on what the best reaction should be, and then want to know if the characters will see it the same way, and what will happen next. We become involved, in other words.Yes, a prologue, like a flashback, is to illustrate things a reader needs to know in order to follow the story in progress, but from a reader’s viewpoint it must be a self-contained story, as against a history lesson. The people need to be worthy of our attention, as people living the events.As I usually do, my suggestion is to read these articles, with particular attention paid to the first one, which details one way of placing the reader on the scene:http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/art/scene.phphttp://www.be-a-better-writer.com/scenes-and-sequels.htmlhttp://writeitsideways.com/are-these-filter-words-weakening-your-fictionAnd if it seems to make sense, pick up a copy of the book the article recommends, Dwight Swain’s, Techniques of the Selling Writer. It won’t make a published writer of you, but it will give you the tools with which to become one if it’s in you to do so. And at that price it’s a bargain.
Not bad, though sparse, and at times seems more to serve the plot and for pretty than natural.
Not given. It's more a listing of what you envision as being there, than an actual setting. If a wooden ship is aground it wouldn't be sitting upright because the bottom is round and there would probably be an external keel. Nor would it, unless a storm surge brought it ashore, be fully on dry land.Shipping crates would be nailed shut to keep the sailors from looting them, and sealed against moisture as much as possible, so the men couldn't open them like trunks, and look inside as you have them do.I also had a problem with a spell that tells the general there's gold on board but doesn't differentiate between what they found and significant gold. I assume the item found has some magical significance, and would have expected the general to know that.And finally, in the opening the guards, and the general, are presented as perhaps having to find menial jobs in the future. But the general can cast spells, so that doesn't track.
• You say they could not see the horses breath? Why not? We’re with the guards. You’ve said the people are distant, not a hundred yards away. The general is in the distance and the horses are moving, which sweeps it away. So both distance and movement work against it being seen. Added to that the guards aren’t noticing and reacting to it, so who is? You? You’re not in this story. • But you say "no military I know of allows people who are at attention to hold a conversation"... They hold no conversation, in fact one guard mutters a single line to the other one... Nowhere does it say “mutters.” And again, people on guard do NOT stand at attention. They guard. And they come to attention and salute (or otherwise formally recognize him) when the general arrives, which happens later. • I'm actually fine with "exquisite tastes" being too general. It’s the editor who needs to like it. To a reader it’s meaningless. Who cares that someone unknown has good taste? It’s a subjective term and has meaning only to a specific viewer. From a reader's POV they want to observe, not have things explained. Had one of the men said, "Nice uniform," And the other replied with, "Say what you want about him, the man has great taste," that would have been character development. The current line doesn’t develop character, set the scene or move the plot. And the word used isn't what the men would have applied. Plus, it’s unrelated to the action in progress, whch makes it a non-sequitur. An editor would probably find this a rejection point, I think. • Your point about Dawson goes back to our original argument... I don't really see how the reader is supposed to get to know Dawson, other than through... well, getting to know him. Exactly, and we know him through what he does and says, not you talking about him. You’re not in the story, so your opinion of him is meaningless, so far as establishing characteristics the reader agrees with. • Could you expand on the idea of general vs local commander? Generals don’t personally investigate. They’re managers and they delegate, because if something important comes up and they’re out playing tourist and looking at the shipwreck, they’re not available. Since he arrives without, so far as we know, some idea that there’s a unique treasure to be gotten, the event seems to belittle him. After all, you’ve said that the guards, and the general, might have to take other jobs. But high level officials, in general, are immune from downsizing, which seems to diminish his importance.
But, were he to think about the guard’s suggestion they simply burn the ship, then shake his head and say something that tells us he feels there’s something critically important aboard, his presence makes sense. Then, when the prize is shown, if he, for just a moment, shows great emotion, then hides it, we know there’s something important going on. Nuance matters because it adds layers.
The problem is that you know that general is almost an honorary title, but the reader knows nothing of their society. Expecting a reader to to understand what you’ve not given them…
I think you have a good idea here - the story part makes sense - but some of the technical aspects need work. 'Burn it to the ground'. A ship can run aground and still be in several feet of water. If the tide had gone out and left the ship completely high and dry on the rocks, chances are it would be canted over to one side and the deck would be at an angle. The oars floating around confused me. Surely a big cargo ship with a number of crewmen would have sails? Also the fact that the oars are floating seems to indicate that there is water around the ship. Did the guards wade to the ship?58% - I don't think bannister is the right word.58% - The bodies and the ship blinked back into sight - I didn't know they had disappeared. If the mist was that thick, you need to say so. It also sounds here as if they are walking on water - 'right boot sank into the surface of the water'.38% Delveans, not Delvean's.
I didn't know who Dawson was when he spoke. He could have been a member of the party or one of the guards. Perhaps have them speak before the general and his party arrives so the reader knows who is who.The general seems a bit dim if he can't see the boils. If he never came close enough, or the guards were closer earlier, this should be made clear. As it stands, the general has come up to the guards, and I assumed that he could see what they could.
I couldn't visualise the place at all. The people are far better described. There are a number of contradictory points about the ship. This is not vital to the story, but confuse the reader too much, and they won't keep reading.
The phrase given is ‘..boot sunk into the surface of the water’. It’s the word surface that gives me a problem. It sounds as if the surface could somehow hold them. The boot is just going to go through the water, isn’t it?
The ship is described only as a merchant ship. I don’t know much about ships - my first image was something like the Cutty Sark - and there was nothing to show me what was there. Was it a deep-sea vessel that could cross oceans? A chunky little work ship that hugged the coast? A shallow draft river boat? The reader has no idea, and you could give the information in a sentence or two.
You mentioned in your response that you saw the ship with the bow hard aground and the stern floating free. Nothing wrong with that, except you have not told the reader! I went through ‘stuck on the rocks’, ‘beached and canted over’ and ‘aground in shallow water’. Nothing in the story gave me any idea which of these three possible scenes was accurate. And trying to figure out what was going on distracted me from what the characters were doing. These are not insignificant little details like what type of trees they rode through, or the colour of a character’s eyes.
As I mentioned in my review, your characters are much clearer. Why then have a blurry, indistinct setting? Imagine a movie with the characters in sharp focus, but the background so out of focus that little can be seen.
In the absence of information, a reader will assume and attempt to construct the world by guess. Then up comes a piece of information that contradicts what the reader is assuming, and the reader is jolted out of the world you are trying to create. Do that often enough and the reader will stop reading. That’s what kept happening to me, and why my rating was so low.
If people have to guess, you can bet your bottom dollar they’re not going to guess just what you’re thinking. And they shouldn’t have to. That’s your job. It’s your world.
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